PRHT won't close

Technical Area Body, Interior & Styling
101

It is difficult to get anything done nowadays that involves a third party without a serious risk of being fleeced one way or another.

don’t pay them a penny until they let you have the old parts back. No way in my opinion that both a switch and a motor have gone but if you want an independant check of the parts when they are returned, happy to assist. There is a risk I will be biased though

A shame we could not have dealt with this job in house.

My feeling is that a motor working on one side would be enough to generate some movement. I think you said there is no movement which points at a switch that operates both motors. They have misdiagnosed your fault and replaced the motor which has not worked so now replacing the part with the issue. Microswitch = pennies not £174.

The motors look very similar to the bulletproof window regulator motors.              

102

Barrie I could not accept the situation mate no way.

You pay for expensive diagnostics which by the looks of it simply didn’t work. If it had I bet it would have found that switch.

So your dealer then fits an expensive motor that very likely was absolutely fine but still it doesn’t work.

That’s misdiagnosed plain and simple. And your 600+ nicker out of pocket.

I would do 1 of two things. Either fit the micro switch and remove the motor OR get the old motor checked and if it proves to be fine which again I bet it will then challenge your dealer about who pays. It was after all their diagnostics which YOU paid for that’s very very likely at fault.

I’ve had loads of convertibles over many years mostly with leccy tops. Never ever had a motor go. Had one minor contact problem that was easily sorted by a competent tech without diagnostics.

103

rhino666

It is difficult to get anything done nowadays that involves a third party without a serious risk of being fleeced one way or another.

don’t pay them a penny until they let you have the old parts back. No way in my opinion that both a switch and a motor have gone but if you want an independant check of the parts when they are returned, happy to assist. There is a risk I will be biased though

A shame we could not have dealt with this job in house.

My feeling is that a motor working on one side would be enough to generate some movement. I think you said there is no movement which points at a switch that operates both motors. They have misdiagnosed your fault and replaced the motor which has not worked so now replacing the part with the issue. Microswitch = pennies not £174.

The motors look very similar to the bulletproof window regulator motors.              

 

i know where i’ll be traveling to if i ever get roof issues , sunny devon 

104

I would be asking the stealers to refit the old motor then the new switch before putting it all back together.

I also find it incredible that a motor just fails especially as you found they are tested to the tenth degree.

My money would be on the micro switch all along.

105

 

Not so sunny at the moment but you are more than welcome.

It is surprising how many people have arrived here to pick up parts, etc - far more than when I lived in Coventry.

106

I too am cynical.

Had something similar with the elevator at work.

Apparently the hydraulic pump motor had failed, they charged us £700 to take it out, rewind and refit.

Only upon refitting, the elevator still didn’t work.

They then told me that the motor had burnt out a contactor.

 

And now I’m thinking, maybe the fault was with the contactor all along and I didn’t need a motor rewind after all.

 

If you’re up for an argument, you could always try and prove that the motor wasn’t at fault and that they mis-diagnosed it. Foot in Mouth

107

I think you have been what is known in the trade as 'Shafted ’ 

108

I’m inclined to believe that the micro switch was at fault all along. This may not be the case at all though and I may just have been very unlucky. I would not normally go anywhere near a main dealer for work on my own (Mazda) cars which I’ve had over the last 20 years. As Mazda are the only ones with the correct equipment to read fault codes I believe, my first course of action was, IMO, correct in getting them to diagnose the fault. Then, allowing them to replace the motor, based on the diagnostics outcome, was also not inappropriate, IMO. car in their workshop, part available, price for replacing motor given (and accepted), diagnostic cost halved after asking for a reduction. So far, it’s just one of those things.

Move forward to yesterday and the new fault found. That’s my issue, I also realise that they won’t do any work for free, why would they? I’m told that they’ve only charged the part cost for the switch as access to replace had already been done as part of the motor replacement. Now, from what I gather, it’s a very big job with the roof removed completely after stripping out a lot of stuff to do this.

Now, I could have have said, don’t do the micro switch, I could have picked the car up after they reassembled, be charged the parts and labour quote to fit the new motor, and still had a car with a PRHT that didn’t work. That makes absolutely no sense at all. 

I will get the parts back with the car, perhaps some kind person may offer help here in testing said parts, then it will show if the motor wasn’t faulty in the first place. Then, a decision can be made regarding any further dealings with Mazda, if required. 

Has it put me off owning a PRHT model? Absolutely not, I just want to get back on the road and enjoy my car. 

Regarding being ‘shafted’ perhaps the poster can explain how he believes I have been? Obviously you feel your decision not to own a PRHT model has been vindicated, based on my experience? Good on you, oh wise one, may your front chassis rails never rot! Although I doubt very much that you’d post that up if they did 

Barrie

109

I agree it seems that was the only course of action open to you, and it’s what I would’ve done. Never
nice when you feel let down by a main dealer, hope you achieve a satisfactory conclusion.
Oh, and next week it’ll be history and you’ll have a really good holiday. Good luck

110

Thanks Ian  appreciated, hope I haven’t been too harsh with Trev45  it’s not an ideal situation to be in and certainly wasn’t factored in to my budget for this  particular car. Massive family holiday looming which myself and Mrs B are funding mostly, so I’ve just put the respray on hold  the roof equates to 60% of the respray costs and as we all know, money is a finite resource! Rang Paint Tech to tell them, the chap was very understanding and thanked me for giving them the four weeks notice, allowing them the opportunity to get something else booked in  he said some folk ring on the morning of the booking to cancel so wasnt upset about me cancelling. I’ll regroup when the holiday is over and see where I go from there. Alright, car won’t be included in the competitions this year but won’t stop me driving and enjoying it. There’s always next year 

i’ll keep things up to date on here when I go and collect the car, just waiting for the call 

Barrie

 

111

[quote=Bettabuilda]

I’m inclined to believe that the micro switch was at fault all along. This may not be the case at all though and I may just have been very unlucky. I would not normally go anywhere near a main dealer for work on my own (Mazda) cars which I’ve had over the last 20 years. As Mazda are the only ones with the correct equipment to read fault codes I believe, my first course of action was, IMO, correct in getting them to diagnose the fault. Then, allowing them to replace the motor, based on the diagnostics outcome, was also not inappropriate, IMO. car in their workshop, part available, price for replacing motor given (and accepted), diagnostic cost halved after asking for a reduction. So far, it’s just one of those things.

Move forward to yesterday and the new fault found. That’s my issue, I also realise that they won’t do any work for free, why would they? I’m told that they’ve only charged the part cost for the switch as access to replace had already been done as part of the motor replacement. Now, from what I gather, it’s a very big job with the roof removed completely after stripping out a lot of stuff to do this.

Now, I could have have said, don’t do the micro switch, I could have picked the car up after they reassembled, be charged the parts and labour quote to fit the new motor, and still had a car with a PRHT that didn’t work. That makes absolutely no sense at all. 

I will get the parts back with the car, perhaps some kind person may offer help here in testing said parts, then it will show if the motor wasn’t faulty in the first place. Then, a decision can be made regarding any further dealings with Mazda, if required. 

Has it put me off owning a PRHT model? Absolutely not, I just want to get back on the road and enjoy my car. 

Regarding being ‘shafted’ perhaps the poster can explain how he believes I have been? Obviously you feel your decision not to own a PRHT model has been vindicated, based on my experience? Good on you, oh wise one, may your front chassis rails never rot! Although I doubt very much that you’d post that up if they did 

Barrie

[/quoI use the term ‘shafted’ as I suspect like many others it was the micro switch that was at fault all along . However the dealers are going to charge you £650 for replacing what I suspect was not needed in the first place ,then an additional £174 for what the fault really was . I may be wrong and the motor and micro switch both failed and for £824 you are now back on the road with a hardtop that opens and closes as it should. You are fortunate in that you carry out most of your own repairs what this thread has highlighted is what sort of bills PRHT owners can expect in the unlikely event of one of the four motors failing .   My cars  front chassis rails are still OK for another 12 months as car passed its MOT last week and my elbow still manages to lower and raise the soft top . You certainly weren’t too harsh on me ,I enjoy a bit of banter .

1 Like
112

[quote=Bettabuilda]

I’m inclined to believe that the micro switch was at fault all along. This may not be the case at all though and I may just have been very unlucky. I would not normally go anywhere near a main dealer for work on my own (Mazda) cars which I’ve had over the last 20 years. As Mazda are the only ones with the correct equipment to read fault codes I believe, my first course of action was, IMO, correct in getting them to diagnose the fault. Then, allowing them to replace the motor, based on the diagnostics outcome, was also not inappropriate, IMO. car in their workshop, part available, price for replacing motor given (and accepted), diagnostic cost halved after asking for a reduction. So far, it’s just one of those things.

Move forward to yesterday and the new fault found. That’s my issue, I also realise that they won’t do any work for free, why would they? I’m told that they’ve only charged the part cost for the switch as access to replace had already been done as part of the motor replacement. Now, from what I gather, it’s a very big job with the roof removed completely after stripping out a lot of stuff to do this.

Now, I could have have said, don’t do the micro switch, I could have picked the car up after they reassembled, be charged the parts and labour quote to fit the new motor, and still had a car with a PRHT that didn’t work. That makes absolutely no sense at all. 

I will get the parts back with the car, perhaps some kind person may offer help here in testing said parts, then it will show if the motor wasn’t faulty in the first place. Then, a decision can be made regarding any further dealings with Mazda, if required. 

Has it put me off owning a PRHT model? Absolutely not, I just want to get back on the road and enjoy my car. 

Regarding being ‘shafted’ perhaps the poster can explain how he believes I have been? Obviously you feel your decision not to own a PRHT model has been vindicated, based on my experience? Good on you, oh wise one, may your front chassis rails never rot! Although I doubt very much that you’d post that up if they did 

Barrie

 

 

hi barrie , 

i agree with you , you need the car/roof sorting ,

it would have made no sense to reject the micro switch fitting while the car was in bits ,

 

BUT , once i had the old parts in my possession i would tell MAZDA that i was “paying under protest” , because i believe the fault was mis-diagnosed . 

inform them the parts are being independently inspected and would be seeking partial refund if the parts check ok .

best of luck mate …

 

 

1 Like
113

If you take the motor away from the dealers they have no way of knowing you are testing same said motor.

I would most certainly be asking them to give proof that the motor they removed from your car is in fact faulty, not just take their word for it.

114

Thanks Geoff and Ian. This is the thing though, it’s a blooming minefield  they aren’t going to want me in the workshops for starters, if they do, how do I actually know which of the multi pins on the plug is power? They could flash it across anything and say “look, we told you it didn’t work”  the print out (if one actually exist) might offer some clue as it apparently only said the motor didn’t work, no mention of faulty switch until reassemble stage. If nothing else, perhaps that should be waved completely, although I already got 50% off after questioning whether it should be charged at all. Had I took the car away at that point, I expect to be charged for diagnostic, fair enough. They kept the car and replaced motor that was deemed to be fubar’d, again fair enough. Then the switch which as said might be all that was faulty in the first instance. Perhaps I can get them to record the part numbers on the motor, it will have a date of production too, they could even scribe a mark on the casing if they wanted to? Then, if working, there is a case perhaps not got any idea of the motor cost but looking at the work involved in replacing it, the fully fitted cost didn’t seem unreasonable to me. Let’s see what they say when I go to collect the car, whenever that is. Wouldn’t surprise me if, (a) they haven’t got a record of the diagnostics for me and (b) they’ve disposed of the parts! Despite specifically requesting both a couple of times 

Barrie

115

Following this with interest.
Assuming it was the micro switch, what would the labour charge be for just replacing this?
I would imagine a lot less than taking the roof apart to replace a motor.
Perhaps argue this as your starting point, ( we are assuming here of course that the motor was in fact fine) also I would be getting a price for the micro switch direct from Mazda- 174 seems an awful lot to me.
Really feel for tho OP here, dealers really do have people over a barrel in this type of situation.

116

DP

117

Hi Barrie, you seem stuck between a rock and a hard place. The main thing is to get the car sorted and enjoy it again. Time is a great healer they say.

Out of interest does anyone know how many motors are involved in the PRHT operation? I’ve been looking in the parts book and can only find two, one on the left and one on the right under the deck panel. I ask this as it seems ( read this on Miata.net I think ) these can be removed / replaced by removing the deck panel and leaving the roof in place but in an earlier post Barrie said they had the roof off, so I’m guessing there must be other motors in there that I can’t find in the parts book. Or maybe the official Mazda Workshop Manual procedure recommends removing the roof and they are just following that. Any thoughts?

Anyway, good luck and lets hope it’s sorted out soon.
D

118

Four motor assemblies, and they are handed, so all distinct.  Each has a six wire connector with five wires, two wires to drive the motor three wires for the hall sensor.  Microswitches for deck are a pair on each quadrant - one at each end of travel.  I’ve not looked closely at the roof micros, but assume the same system.

If a limit micro failed to open, then there’s a possibility the motor could have been not switched off at end of travel and then cooked.  A nose test will tell.

 

119

If it’s any consolation Barrie I reckon I would have done the same and sent it in for a diagnosis although thinking at the same time, can I fix it myself?

As always with these things you rely on the so called experts and now end up in their hands as to how it gets fixed, no turning back so to speak. Annoying that it’s going to cost more now, but as said what can you do with the car in bits?

Get an electrical engineer and I suppose it will cost you a good chunk for them to find the fault having needed to strip the roof off to get to all the electrical gubbins for testing, it’s a no win situtaion, just costly I guess these things.

Hope it’s sorted for you as it stands with no extra costs, or even as you say a reduction on the quotes already.

120

Thanks for that Richard. Do you know where the other two motors are located. I can find the two under the deck panel, where the infamous silver Allen bolt is but can’t find any others.
Thanks
D