I am about to start refurbishing the suspension on an NA when I’ve assembled all the bits I think I need/want to replace - I’m taking off the subframes repainting and re-bushing.
The bit I loath and fear about this is undoing the subframe bolts themselves - while I will be soaking bolts in penetrating fluid, I am worried I’ll shear one. This is an original 96 UK car that has seems to have seen a lot of salt in its time given the amount I’ve spent on sorting the body work.
I could order a 1m breaker bar but I have also got a good SGS compressor which will take an air wrench and SGS have one with 320nm on sale for £18 although the 880nm one is £98. I have it in mind that an air wrench mitigates the risk of shearing a bolt - does anyone know if that is correct? If so does anyone know if the 320nm one would be powerful enough?
Also I will just put a blow torch on some of the old bushes to get them out before cleaning and painting the suspension arms but I would like something a little less jerry rig than the threaded bar and sockets I have used in the past to insert the new bushes. Has anyone got a recommendation for a good bush insert tool - I am putting in the IL Motorsport bush set.
You appear to believe in fairy stories told by air tool sellers. The £18 air guns will pull 100nm on a good day, you will need to pay around £150 to £300 to get a powerful air gun and you need a hefty compressor to run it. A true 880 nm for £98 is also unlikely
Yes rear sub frame bolts can and do shear but you only find out if it happens when you remove the bolts.
I have seen no data at all to confirm that a very powerful air gun will shear less bolts than a breaker bar.
Also as you fear getting out broken rear subframe bolts, if they shear is somewhat tiresome and the fuel tank is above them.
Cannot help on changing suspension bushes and those who have done them all in quite a few cases advise it was not a good use of money or time.
I’ve built the house I live in, a Caterham, a boat and rebuilt a couple of Alfas in my youth as well as holding down a full time job and raising my family. Doing interesting work is better than watching TV or scratching one’s bum and if having lovely clean suspension arms and subframes makes me happy I am lucky to be made so happy by such simple things. I could pay AK Automotive to do all of it but where is the fun in that. I save them for the bits I know I can mess up like the alignment or visible bodywork welding.
New bushes on the Alfa 75 and Alfasud made them much nicer.
We have newly powder coated(used) subframes and wishbones and anti roll bars .Also new top balljoints and bottom balljoints so we could se4ll you what you need/want .Over the years I cleaned/sandblasted and any other method to ready to repaint arms etc but not really great job, despite all the effort to clean properly.We could send you over 4 /8 wishbones ready to go, repaint the sunframes as they are easier to do and rebush as required.
On the bolt topic, nuts can be heated with blow lamp as above but bolts are threaded in to chassis so no way to heat them really.Its unlikely they will break being 19mm head size(m14 maybe) they are tough.Wire brush/heat what you can and work away.If the bolts/nuts get tight when partially out ,tighten them back up, loosen them again etc to clean the threads .Dont keep unscrewing them if they are really tight,say half way down
Or poly bush set that you could to the “new” wishbones??
I am not pushing sales just trying to help you out.In fact its easier for me to sell here in Ireland anyway just though the better job is best?
If you are going to all this trouble I would strongly advise you to change all the bushings whether you think they need it or not. After you take a bushing off that appeared to look OK, you will see better where it has worn, especially on a 1996 car. The last time I looked MX5parts didn’t stock bushings for the front and rear shock absorbers but you can buy them elsewhere.
Oops! nearly forgot. A trick I have used to get stubborn nuts loose is to try to tighten the nut first as just a little bit of movenent is all that is needed to then undo the nut.
I am doing exactly what you propose at the moment. Its a first time for me.
The subframe nuts and bolts came off easily once “cracked”. I soaked them in a mixture of ATF and acetone the night before.
The bolts were almost like new as they are hidden from the elements and salt. I wire brushed the studs after the soaking in ATF and acetone, and could almost unscrew them with finger pressure only.
I used a 1/2" drive 18" breaker bar with a 24" length of pipe over the end to crack the nuts / bolts. Make sure you use a six sided socket.
I had no issue removing 20 of the 22 wishbone bushes with threaded bar and tube/ nuts/ washers. I did not use any heat. I still have to remove the tow in the rear hubs, see my thread
I thought you were talking about changing the bushes on a Mazda MX5 not an Alfa.
I advised that those who had changed the bushes on an MX5 questioned the cost and time for virtually no improvement in driving the MX5. Not what happens when you do the same on an Alfa.
Can’t advise on removal of wishbone bushes as most seem to get away with using the tried and tested threaded bar, nuts and washers method. I assume professional would use some sort of hydraulic press.
I have 2 makita impact drivers - half inch drive 6905B - 110 volt and 240 volt. These are the perfect tool to remove suspension bolts.
The impact action shocks the nuts/bolts into submission without breaking them and rattles out corrosion - great tools.
Using breaker bars just allow a lot of force to be exerted and a greater chance of breaking or rounding off.
Well I get fed up sometimes. I labour under the impression mx5 oc is an enthusiasts club for enthusiasts and the first response I get to my OP I could paraphrase as you are wasting your time - my point being working on the mx5 is time well spent in my book.
Some folk can suck the bloody joy out of Christmas.??
last time I looked the Alfa 75 had wishbones a prop shaft and bushes in the same configuration as the mx5 And a 75 drives much better with good bushes - take it from me ive driven across Europe in mine. Moreover didn’t the head of Mx5 design team say the first thing he would have replaced on a leggy mx5 are the bushes.
I admire your patience to weld. Its a real skill and important - its getting to the point where people who have body shops don’t like to weld as it takes such a long time with the prep.
If naked flame heat is an issue use a hot air gun on turbo nutter stun setting and then a can of radiator pipe freeze - that normally ‘shocks’ most nuts/bolts
Why can you not take advice that there may well be very little advantage to what you are doing.
You say you have built houses, done up cars and saved the world. You further say that putting new bushes in an Alfa improved the car.
I have done just as much DIY as you and supervised large construction sites and done just as much DIY as you. I also run MX5 tech days at my house and have done so form a good few years for both the Grampain and Tayside MX5 club so get off your high horse. There is nothing to be gained with me from “I have done more than you”.
It appears that on the other hand you may well be “impressed” by your own rantings!!!
Unlike your good self I do not make decisions without talking to other MX5 fettlers that I respect and have good advice from in the past. I accept that I do not know it all just nearly everything!
I accept that you have redone the bushes on a Alfa, you have said that twice. I also read the comment from the Mazda designer that at 60k miles the enthusiast should spend time redoing bushes and up to 2 years ago I never question that as I had never met anyone who had done job.
Two years ago I met two separate MX5 enthusiasts that had changed their MX5 suspension bushes.
One had used the IR Motor Sport bushes on a 100k mile car and said he would not do it again as there was virtually no improvement for the cost and time spent. On the other hand he thought the cost and time to fit Miester coilovers was a great improvement.
The other had done two MX5 suspension bush jobs, one poly bushes for a friend that he advised were too hard and noisey and advised he would not fit them on his own car. On his own car after reading the same comment by the MX5 designer he to fitted a full set of IR Motorsport rubber bushes. He also advised it was not worth the effort for minimal improvements.
The fact that you have built houses and fitted bushes to an Alfa does not change the opinion of two people I have had great advice from in the past that the job is not worth doing.
This club is indeed for people to help each other and good advice if it says something is not worth doing is good advice even if it does not suit the route you are traveling at the moment.
I agree with Drum but only from the honesty of other people who have gone through this process and admitted the truth rather than from my personal experience.
Polybushes seem to work on track but are generally a cause of additional discomfort on the road. If you want to tighten up the car ride do it with suspension not bushing.
IR Motorsport bushes seem to be a good replacement for OE but are generally neutral if replacing original bushes. In other words time and money spent on something that will add nothing to your enjoyment of the car or ride quality.
In truth it seems that OE bushes are the best that can be fitted and generally last the lifetime of the car.
It is your car and your money - do what you like but with the caveat that genuine advice is probably and in this case obviously not what you want to hear.
I can completely understand why owners refurbish their subframes and wishbones as Mazda never properly finished these items in production. The idea of a durable powder coat finish really makes sense. In order to powdercoat properly I imagine bushes have to be removed. Has anyone removed OE bushes, powdercoated wishbones and then managed to effectively refit the original bushes?
The original question was not whether I change the bushes or not but seeking advice on avoiding one of the few things I hate when working on older cars being resolving sheared bolts. I only bought my big compressor last year so never had one to power an air impact wrench before - I wondered it anyone had tried an air impact wrench and what their experience was.
The way you sneered at my innocent and genuine question about air wrenches referring to me believing in fairy stories was, with all due respect, a pretty poor response Sir. If I was asking the question about whether an air wrench helps(the clue is in the words “does anyone know if this is correct” ) it meant I did not know what to believe - otherwise why would I ask?
The point I was making in my second post regarding the things I have done is I like to keep busy with making or mending things and in the time I make for that at the moment I love spending time with my MX5. Given the engine seems to be in rude health as is the gearbox and I got someone else to sort the bodywork then the next thing I have time for is the suspension. And it is timely to tackle the suspension. Even if the bushes did not need replacing the wishbones of what was an original but tired and worn 110k UK car when I bought it a year ago (I wanted a red 1.8is I could bring back) are in a mess and need some TLC. My car is hill climbing this year. I may need to buy new wishbones if the current ones look very poor after being stripped of thick rust - pulling those out and the subframes for good measure and blasting them and recoat them won’t do what is left of the bushes much favours.
On the topic of those bushes the ones in there at present are original to the car and are so worn and split I can waggle some of them around and push them out with my finger - they are done, kaput, fin. My reference earlier to some of the bushes needing a blow torch is correct - some may need to be burnt out, some will just push out -one at the back fell out when I was sorting a leaking damper last year. I already have the new IM bushes to go in.